Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/17/1994 05:00 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
February 17, 1994
5:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Richard Foster, Chair
Representative Eldon Mulder
Representative Jerry Mackie
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Gary Davis, Vice-Chair
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Curt Menard
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Teleconferenced public hearing on Department of
Transportation's use of weedkiller (RODEO) on highway
rights-of-way.
WITNESS REGISTER
JONATHAN W. SCRIBNER
Regional Director, Souteast Region
Department of Transportation/Public Facilities (DOT/PF)
6860 Glacier Highway
Juneau, AK 99801
465-1763
Position Statement: Provided DOT/PF position on RODEO
PETER GOLL
P.O. Box 850
Haines, AK 99827
766-2739
Position Statement: Testified in Juneau in opposition
to use of RODEO
KELLY WESTFALL
P.O. Box 5193
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-3561
Position Statement: Testified in favor of use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
BOB WATT
6227 S. Tongass
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-2795
Position Statement: Testified in favor of use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
SCOTT HURSEY
P.O. Box 213
Petersburg, AK 99833
772-3967
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
KATHERINE SMITH
1193 Cooper Court
Homer, AK 99603
235-5448
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
TRINA FELLOWS
266 E. Bayview
Homer, AK 99603
235-8611
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
STEVE REED
4 Mile Zimovia Highway
Wrangell, AK 99929
874-2258
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
MAGGIE FENNIMORE
3-1/2 Mile Zimovia Highway
Wrangell, AK 99929
874-3525
Position Statement: Testified in support of use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
STEPHEN HELGESON
9 Mile Zimovia Highway
Wrangell, AK 99929
874-3288
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
NATASHA CALVIN
P.O. Box 2966
Sitka, AK 99835
747-8950
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
ERIC HOLLE
P.O. Box 964
Haines, AK 99827
766-2295
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
DALE GOSNELL
P.O. Box 611
Skagway, AK 99840
983-3134
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
CYNTHIA WILLIAMS
P.O. Box 8
Skagway, AK 99840
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
LOUIE NELSON
P.O Box 297
Haines, AK 99827
766-2458
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
JAMES FOSTER
P.O. Box 9068
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-7607
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
KATYA KIRSCH
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, AK 99801
463-3366
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
BECKY KNIGHT
P.O. Box 1331
Petersburg, AK 99833
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
DENNIS HARRIS
P.O. Box 21214
Juneau, AK 99802
586-2384
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
FLORIAN SEVER
1706 Edgecumbe Drive
Sitka, AK 99835
747-8466
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
(Spoke via teleconference)
PAULA TERREL
5025 Thane Road
Juneau, AK 99801
586-3451
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to use of RODEO
The following people submitted written testimony at the LIO
sites:
JAMES McGOWAN
2310 Halibut Point Road
Sitka, AK 99835
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
GALEN PAINE
329 Harbor Drive Rm. 203
Sitka, AK 99835
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
SUSAN ROYCE
1919 Cascade Creek Road
Sitka, AK 99835
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
DORIS SMITH
3407 HPR
Sitka, AK 99835
747-8807
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
BETSEY BURDETT
P.O. Box 9143
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-8829
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
GEOFFREY GROSS
P.O. Box 9143
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-8829
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
ROSEANNE REPPER
3101 Tongass
Ketchikan, AK 99901
225-7806
Position Statement: Submitted written testimony opposing
use of RODEO
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-4, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR FOSTER called the meeting to order at 5:12 p.m.
Number 046
JON SCRIBNER identified himself as the Southeast Regional
Director for the Department of Transportation/Public
Facilities (DOT/PF), and thanked the committee for inviting
him to speak on DOT's Brush Control Program. He said there
is a real brush problem in Southeast Alaska and cited three
reasons: brush growing along the road creates a safety
problem by reducing visibility; the roots from the brush
cause roadside damage via distress to the shoulders; and
aesthetically, people are not able to view the overall
scenery. These are the three reasons DOT/PF is attempting
to address the issue.
Number 063
MR. SCRIBNER stated that for the last 15 years, DOT/PF has
exclusively used mechanical methods to attempt to remove
brush from roadsides. But these methods were unable to keep
the problem under control; so 2-1/2 years ago DOT/PF looked
at other options, one of which was the use of chemicals. She
said DOT/PF tested the use of RODEO in Petersburg and
Klawock two years ago and the results were favorable.
Number 74
MR. SCRIBNER predicted that DOT/PF would have to come back
once every three to four years to reapply RODEO, and it
would then be used in lesser quantities because it would
only be targeted to new growth. According to Mr. Scribner,
the RODEO killed the alder, but left the flowers and
grasses.
Number 83
MR. SCRIBNER reported that DOT/PF also took test samples of
the soil and found that RODEO was in very minute quantities
on the ground, in the soil, and directly underneath where it
had been applied, and within two months that RODEO was
starting to disappear, based on test results.
Number 102
MR. SCRIBNER stated that DOT/PF concluded, based on all of
the test results, that RODEO would be a fairly good chemical
to use, and in 1993 applied for permits to enable it to use
RODEO on a more widespread basis. Public hearings were held
and the public was very concerned about the proposal.
Number 116
According to MR. SCRIBNER, after the hearings it was clear
to him that there were many questions and concerns which
DOT/PF did not have answers to, and that DOT/PF shouldn't
move forward with the propose, so he subsequently withdrew
the permit applications with the DEC. Since then, Mr.
Scribner claims the DOT/PF has gone back over the public
testimony and recorded the questions and issues raised by
the public in those hearings and has tried to address every
one of those issues.
Number 130
MR. SCRIBNER reported that DOT/PF responded to the public
demand that they develop an integrated vegetation management
control program by doing just that. The DOT/PF has also
looked at the health concerns and tried all suggested
alternatives, including steam generation, prison labor, new
kinds of brushing machines, but none of these methods solved
the problem; therefore, the DOT/PF developed a roadside
management program which proposes that they just treat the
guardrail in Southeast Alaska.
Number 165
MR. SCRIBNER referred to an environmental impact statement
prepared by the state of Washington on roadside vegetation
management. Washington treats about 50% of their road
rights-of-way, according to Mr. Scribner, and they use about
85,000 pounds of chemicals a year. He said Alaska's DOT/PF
is proposing to use about 180 pounds. Washington uses 25
different chemicals, one of which is RODEO; in tests, they
have determined that the risks of those chemicals is
negligible in the manner that they are used by the state of
Washington. Negligible was defined as the risk that one
would incur by taking one transcontinental airline flight a
year. Information such as this led Alaska's DOT/PF to
conclude that they could apply RODEO in a safe way.
Number 200
According to MR. SCRIBNER, RODEO works by absorbing into the
roots of plants and killing them. He also stated that RODEO
is the most widely used chemical in the world for herbicidal
control and the most studied herbicide chemical. The EPA
has placed RODEO in their most safe category, with regard to
carcinogenic effects. That category states that there is
evidence to suggest the substance is not a carcinogen.
Number 228
MR. SCRIBNER alleged that RODEO does not leach independently
into water and absorbs onto soil particles very strongly.
He added that it biodegrades, on the average, in from 60 to
120 days, depending on the amount of bacteria in the soil.
It is one of the few chemicals approved for use on water and
in estuaries. Mr. Scribner cited organizations such as
Ducks, Unlimited, The Sierra Club, and National Conservancy
as users of RODEO. He further stated that RODEO is not
absorbed into the bloodstream of animals; rather, it passes
through and is excreted.
Number 250
MR. SCRIBNER explained that, in the program DOT/PF has
developed, the roadside is divided into three zones. The
first zone is the recovery zone, which is to be kept clear
for vehicular traffic; the second zone is down into the
ditch and up the other side as far as the brushing equipment
will reach; the third zone is to the outer sides of the
rights-of-way. The DOT/PF is proposing the use of RODEO
around the guardrail in zone 1A.
Number 294
MR. SCRIBNER concluded by stating the DOT/PF would be having
further public hearings on this issue within the next month.
Number 304
CHAIR FOSTER thanked Mr. Scribner and announced to the
committee that, due to the large number of people wishing to
testify via teleconference, it would be appreciated if
discussion be held to a minimum.
Number 309
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE wished to state, for the record, that
he appreciated the opportunity for this hearing; and that
staffers were in attendance from Representative Williams'
and Senator Zharoff's offices. He also acknowledged the
presence of Peter Goll. He stated that many people were
very concerned about the detrimental impact on the health of
berry pickers from RODEO.
Number 329
PETER GOLL, Former Alaska State Representative, thanked
Representative Mackie for making the meeting possible. He
expressed concern about the health effects of the use of
RODEO as proposed by DOT/PF and suggested an alternative
method which the state might consider employing: hiring a
couple of kids with chainsaws to cut the brush for very
little money. Mr. Goll concluded by respectfully
recommending that clear direction from the legislature to
DOT/PF was needed in order to put this issue to rest for
good.
Number 412
KELLY WESTFALL, via teleconference from Ketchikan, expressed
himself as favoring the use of RODEO on roadside rights-of-
ways.
Number 425
BOB WATT, via teleconference from Ketchikan, agreed with Mr.
Westfall, and added that the issue was one of highway
safety. He stated that the suggestion of youngsters using
chainsaws was an incredibly dangerous idea, and concluded by
expressing his overall favor with using RODEO.
Number 454
SCOTT HURSEY, via teleconference from Petersburg, expressed
his opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the
comments of Mr. Goll.
Number 475
KATHERINE SMITH, via teleconference from Homer, expressed
her opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the
comments of the prior opposed testifiants.
Number 503
TRINA FELLOWS, via teleconference from Homer, expressed her
opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the
comments of the prior opposed testifiants.
Number 512
STEVE REED, via teleconference from Wrangell, expressed his
opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred with the
comments of the prior opposed testifiants.
Number 525
MAGGIE FENNIMORE, via teleconference from Wrangell,
expressed her support of using RODEO along the guardrails.
Number 534
STEPHEN HELGESON, via teleconference from Wrangell,
expressed his opposition to the use of RODEO, and concurred
with the concerns of prior opposed testifiants.
Number 545
NATASHA CALVIN, via teleconference from Sitka, identified
herself as having a Master's Degree in science and biology
and experience as a research biologist. She expressed
opposition to the use of RODEO, and cited past incidents
where chemicals were purportedly not harmful to human
beings, but it was discovered later that the data had been
rigged. She suggested the use of school children with hand
clippers as the solution to roadside brush.
Number 569
ERIC HOLLE, via teleconference from Haines, expressed his
opposition to the use of RODEO, thanked Representative
Mackie for his interest, and identified himself as the
president of the Lynn Canal Conservation Group, and stated
that his group had available written literature regarding
RODEO. He stressed the unity of opposition to RODEO and
concurred, in substance, with the concerns expressed by
prior opposed testifiants.
**THE FOLLOWING TESTIMONY WAS NOT RECORDED, ONLY TAKEN FROM
WRITTEN NOTES:
DALE GOSNELL, via teleconference from Skagway, expressed his
opposition to the use of RODEO and wondered what the
management strategy was.
MR. SCRIBNER replied that DOT/PF would spray in the fall and
cut down the brush in the spring. Subsequent applications
would be much lighter.
CYNTHIA WILLIAMS, via teleconference from Skagway, expressed
opposition to RODEO and commented that there isn't that much
guard rail anyway.
LOUIE NELSON, via teleconference from Haines, concurred with
the testimony of Mr. Goll, and added that there's nothing
wrong with traffic being slowed down.
JAMES FOSTER, via teleconference from Ketchikan, expressed
his opposition to RODEO due to his own participation in
berry picking along the road.
KATYA KIRSCH, testifying in Juneau, identified herself as
being with the Alaska Environmental Lobby, and expressed the
opinion that cost is irrelevant in light of potential health
risks.
BECKY KNIGHT, via teleconference from Petersburg, expressed
opposition to the use of RODEO.
DENNIS HARRIS, testifying in Juneau, expressed opposition to
the use of RODEO.
REPRESENTATIVE MACKIE thanked the participants and concurred
with all those who had expressed concern over the possible
ill-effects of using RODEO on rights-of-way.
FLORIAN SEVER, via teleconference from Sitka, expressed
opposition to the use of RODEO.
PAULA TERREL, testifying in Juneau, identified herself as
being with the Thane Road Homeowner's Association and
expressed opposition to the use of RODEO, whether there was
a risk or not, because even a perceived risk is too much of
a risk.
CHAIR FOSTER adjourned the meeting at 6:25 p.m.
The following people submitted written testimony at the LIO
sites opposing the use of RODEO:
JAMES MCGOWAN, Sitka
GALEN PAINE, Sitka
SUSAN ROYCE, Sitka
DORIS SMITH, Sitka
BETSEY BURDETT, Ketchikan
GEOFFREY GROSS, Ketchikan
ROSEANNE REPPER, Ketchikan
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